Nikko free pass or JR pass value

Hi I have allot of questions and have included most of my research in hopes it helps. Sorry if I wrote too much.
The basic question is how the JR pass is less expensive or faster than the Tobu Kinugawa theme park pass.

I have a JR Pass and will be arriving in Tokyo on 7/25 at 11:20a. On the 26th I was going to go to Edo Wonderland but have some time to go to Toshogu Shrine in the morning.

I wanted to have the best chance for an early start and trying to pick a place to stay in Tokyo.
I was wondering if I had more, less or the same costs using JR vs adding the Kinugawa pass to this trip.

On the surface it seems like the Kinugawa pass for 6000 yen which includes pass 3 shrines in central Nikko, Edo wonderland admission , bus, and round trip train from Asakusa.

When added up
Admission to three shrines 1000-1300 yen
All day bus for central Nikko to train stations 500 Yen. (want to save some by not walking the entire way from the station.

Edo Wonderland admission with 10% discount 4,050

Not including getting from Tokyo to Nikko or Kinugawa that is already 5,850-6150 yen depending of one wants full access to the shrine. Again this is without any travel from tokyo costs.

So I would then say that the 6000 yen Kinugawa pass is a good value since you also get train and bus round trip. And the JR pass would not get me to Edomura.

However I do have the JR pass and probably was going to leave for Kyoto that night.

So it will be active anyway on the 26th.

I know that there are free Edonyra shuttles with the earliest at 10a leaving from the Nikko Toshogo shrine area.

My goal then , as the schedules tell me, that I can get to central Nikko by 8:25a, is to get that shuttle if I was using the JR pass. The return is a bit iffy since I might want to stay longer at Edo to getthe full value. But then they do not stop at JR Nikko station after 1:25 pm but do arrive at the Toshogu as late as 4:30.

I noticed some mixed info on crossing non jr lines and extra fees. Can anyone clarify if there will be any fees if I leave from Ueno station? there is a tranfer at UTSUNOMIYA to something called the JR Nikko line but I am not sure what type of train that is. (little picture looks like a cable car...)Is the transfer easy?

So I am not sure if I will get stuck buying transport out of Kinugawa if I stayed an hour later. Lets say I do not.
Then I still might do the 500 yen nikko bus passbut also do not know if there is a bus schedule in english for the return.
I would have the same 4,050 Edomura admission, and the same 1000-1300 admission to the shrines.
how long does it take to see Nikko Toshugo at a normal pace and can all three be seen in 1.5 hours? Or is Toshugo the only one that can be fit in. They seem so close on the maps on this sight.

It appears that even if just gong ot Nikko Toshugo, the cost is 1000-1300 yen anyway.

I also might need to take soem Tokyo subways depending where I stay to get to Uneno station.

So I am still coming up with the same cost even if I use the JR pass, and I am failing to see any savings by using the JR pass and maybe will have a few more expenses or time delays. I only see one example if I get to Ueno by 5:10a I would get to nikko 7:45a.

Did I figure this incorrectly? What I am missing any time or cost savings? I have to activate the pass since at some point I am going to Kyoto that evening.
I see a chance there could be more costs if there is any crossed line fees or extra bus fees. But I am not sure, Right now it seems on average I should be able to arrive at Nikko before 8:30a.

If I use the Kinugawa Theme park pass are the buses in central Nikko covered to get to the shrines or just the buses in Kinugawa to Edomura?

The advantage of getting a place near the Asuakusa area near the station is that I will ahve some time to go to Sensoji temple and will be close for an early depart on a rapid train.

The disadvantage is what to do with my carry on bag? If I stay some place hear a JR station that I can stop at that would have a large enough locker. Say it was Tokyo station, then I could pick it up before goign off to Kyoto rahter than go back into Asakusa. anyone have a good suggestion how to do the bag management. It is only one carry on size and a day pack. If you know any of the stations with lockers that will fit it that I would leave for Kyto from, that would be helpful since I could bring the bag up and leave it when I transfer. But It think I will have to get all they way to Tokyo station to get teh Shinkasan right?

Thank for the help.

Mark

You pretty much figured out the details about Tobu pass vs. JR pass. Note that discounts for the theme parks are available in a few places and ways (internet coupons, pamphlets, etc.). Few people pay the full price.

I noticed some mixed info on crossing non jr lines and extra fees. Can anyone clarify if there will be any fees if I leave from Ueno station? there is a tranfer at UTSUNOMIYA to something called the JR Nikko line but I am not sure what type of train that is.

That is all JR. Fully covered by the Japan Rail Pass.

Is the transfer easy?

Yes.

how long does it take to see Nikko Toshugo at a normal pace and can all three be seen in 1.5 hours?

It widely depends on the person. Some spend an entire day. Other walk through in 1.5 hours.

Or is Toshugo the only one that can be fit in. They seem so close on the maps on this sight.

Walking between them is not time-consuming. But Toshogu has large grounds, and if you want to see everything in detail, you can easily spend 1-2 hours there.

It appears that even if just gong ot Nikko Toshugo, the cost is 1000-1300 yen anyway.

No, there is a combination ticket that covers all three main shrines and temples (plus Iemitsu's mausoleum) for 1000 yen (but it does not include one part of Toshogu):
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3801.html

I only see one example if I get to Ueno by 5:10a I would get to nikko 7:45a.

Did I figure this incorrectly?

Yes, that is the earliest connection by JR. That gets you there just in time for the shrines and temples to open at 8am.

If I use the Kinugawa Theme park pass are the buses in central Nikko covered to get to the shrines or just the buses in Kinugawa to Edomura?

The buses in central Nikko are not covered.

anyone have a good suggestion how to do the bag management.

Since you are unlikely to return to either Ueno or Asakusa Station for most efficient travel, I recommend to bring your bag to Nikko and store it in a locker at Nikko Station.

I had read that not all train stations have large enough lockers to fit carry on size bags or if they do they have very few.

Do you have any first hand knowledge of the size of the lockers in JR Nikko station? I do not have a problem having the bag closer to me but not sure what I would do if it does not fit.
It seems like they have a few but only can see 2 in the photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/ejc-travel/4686996788/in/photostream/
So any idea of what to do if all the large ones are taken? Standard carry on I do not think fits in the medium size.

Oh you mentioned nobody pays full price to get into Edo Wonderland. I have only found 10%. Is there any other sources for a better discount and whatis the most common discount since I would like to reduce that cost as much as possible. (knowing what food and such might cost in a theme park)
Thanks

Do you have any first hand knowledge of the size of the lockers in JR Nikko station?

The picture shows them beautifully. There seem to be all sizes available. Typical dimensions of the three sizes are mentioned here:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2274.html

I do not have a problem having the bag closer to me but not sure what I would do if it does not fit.

It will fit. The question is whether there will be vacant lockers available. And the answer will be "highly likely" if you arrive so early in the morning.

Standard carry on I do not think fits in the medium size.

Sometimes it even fits in the small ones. But almost certainly in the medium ones. In the unlikely case that there are no lockers available, you can ask the station staff for information.

Oh you mentioned nobody pays full price to get into Edo Wonderland. I have only found 10%. Is there any other sources for a better discount and whatis the most common discount since I would like to reduce that cost as much as possible.

I have seen better discounts than the online discount, but, sorry, I can't remember where or through which ways.

OK Imight have a little over 22'' and some rigid parts so was not sure it would fit in medium.


Now the next part I am having trouble with is finding an english Tobu bus schedule.

First, I do not know how to get to the bridge exit and how often the bus runs. This could alter my timing.

Second, How far actual is the Shinkyo bridge from Toshogu in walking time?
The map on Japan guide makes it seem very close.

Third, It seems I need that extra hour at Edomura if I am only getting in the complex at 11a (arrive 10:35 but figure it takes time to get off and through admission.)

But the free shuttle leaves 3:20 pm.
So then I am not quite sure what I will need to take to get to JR Nikko station to get back and I would like to be back at JR Nikko station from Edomura by 4 :30 or 4:45 pm so I can catch the 5:07 JR train to start the journey to Kyoto.

The issue is that I can not find any english translated current time table. I have been happy to see so many other English versions on this search but this one seems to have been elusive for quite some time. Being a tourist area I would have thought they would have an english translation by now.

Now the next part I am having trouble with is finding an english Tobu bus schedule.

I don't think there exists one. Here is the Japanese one:
http://www.tobu-bus.com/pc/images/data/20110620140258.pdf

First, I do not know how to get to the bridge exit

The bridge is about a 20-30 minute walk from the station. Or a short ride by bus. The buses, which circle around town, however, do not stop near the bridge on the outbound journey, as shown on the bus map on the following page:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3805.html

and how often the bus runs.

Pretty frequently.

Second, How far actual is the Shinkyo bridge from Toshogu in walking time?

Another 10 minutes.

Being a tourist area I would have thought they would have an english translation by now.

You would think so. Especially, since simply adding romanized names to the Japanese timetables would make them useful to foreigners. Unfortunately, the local bus company does not even think that far.

And I am sorry, but currently I have no time to provide any translations myself.

But the tobu Nikko Yumoto bus should stop at Shinkyo. Is there a way to only pay a fare to that stop?

I am really more concerned about the frequencey on 7/26 on the way back since the free shuttle does not stop at JR Nikko station in the Summer on their last stop.

But the tobu Nikko Yumoto bus should stop at Shinkyo.

Yes. Yumoto is in Okunikko.

Is there a way to only pay a fare to that stop?

Yes. I think it is 300 yen. The following page explains how to pay:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2015.html