to buy or not a JR Pass ?

Hello,

My wife and I will come for 8 days to Tokyo.
We would like to visit Kyoto too.

A JR pass is 28300 yen.
One way ticket is 13,520 so I suppose the return is twice 27,040.

Under these circumstances buying tickets is more cost effective.

Am I missing out on something.

Thank you

There are some other options to consider including the Japanican Shinkansen package which includes the round trip and a night in a hotel for 19000 yen. Mentioned here:-
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2363.html

It also depends on what you do in Tokyo (or from Kyoto) during your stay.

In Tokyo use of all JR lines is free, including the Yamanote (main circle line) and Chuo line) these give you access to "most" tourist attractions within Tokyo. Also there are a number of day trips which are either free or at a reduced price because you can travel part way by JR trains. This includes Nikko (free) Hakone/Kawaguchiko (part way), Kamakura (free) etc. Also, if you activate your 7-day JR pass on day 2 then it will be valid on your last day and you can catch the Narita Express (NEX) train back to the airport free of charge.

Depending on how many nights you are in Kyoto you can also do day trips from there for free. Some common ones include travelling to Hikone to see Hikone castle, Osaka, Nara, Kobe, Nagoya, and even Hiroshima or somewhere like Kanazawa.

Also, the JR pass does offer a lot of convenience as it is easy to use and if you wish to do an extra side trip it can be easily done.

I normally would recommend the JR pass but it is up to you.

I have taken the family to Japan using the rail pass twice now. Despite being VERY cost effective to see a lot of the country it is extremely convenient. Once you have exchanged your voucher for the pass when you get there you just walk through any JR ticket gate and show your pass, get on any unreserved carriage and go anywhere without booking or language barrier. You can reserve seats if you like at no cost and we found every train station ticket office spoke good basic English if that helps. The pass includes most bullet train services except the non-stop Nozomi service which is no great loss. The Hikari bullet train is far more convenient for holiday travel. Cheers

Although it works out slightly less for the shinkansen tickets, don't forget that although the JR pass gains most of it's value in saving money from Shinkansen fares, it can be used on all JR lines. This means you can use it to get around Tokyo too, so you have to factor in the cost of these trains, plus the fare to and from the airport.

Also on a practical note, the JR pass is simply activated once by visiting the JR office at the airport then all you do is show it at the ticket barrier to get through. If you use normal tickets, you'll have to queue up at the booth for the shinkansen tickets, take the time to use machines and work out fares at the Tokyo stations which can be uncomfortable when busy etc. It's not a nightmare or anything, but if it makes things easier it's a bonus right? :P There is also the added bonus that during your trip, if you have the spontaneous desire to visit a place you haven't planned for, it won't cost you anymore with a pass instead of having to buy more tickets.

Personally I would get the pass, with all the travel fees included it would be a bit cheaper or at worst the same, plus makes things more convenient and flexible when getting around :-)

It's good I asked.
I knew that there must be cheaper tickets if I buy in advance but on Hyperdia I did not find this option.

Also, I did not know that JR Pass can be used on the Narita Express. I assumed ("assumption is the mother of all f..k ups", Sean Connery in 'The Rock') that NeX is an exception for the pass. I will come on a Saturday and leave next Sunday so I could use the pass only for one trip.

Also I did not know of these:

"Kyoto 2-Day Train & Hotel Package by Hikari Shinkansen" - 19,400

"E-Voucher for Kyoto Bullet Train Open Ticket Package & Kyoto Sightseeing One-day Pass" - 21,000

It is strange that with one night hotel is less expensive than the e-voucher. The latter includes the pass but that one is only 1,200. With the former you are limited on the choice of departure times but at least
you get a reserved seat.
The e-voucher is time flexible but with non-reserved cars only.

Best would the ""Kyoto 2-Day Train & Hotel Package ...." but without the hotel so to be even cheaper but this would not be possible for sure.

So to summarize
JR Pass
NEX

JR PASS 28,300
Narita Express 3,500 (one trip)
Total 31,800

7 days adavance ticket 23,000
Narita Express 5,500 (return ticket)
Total 28,500

E-voucher 21,000
Narita Express 5,500 (return ticket)
Total 26,500

The last option is the most convenient (I do not want the one with the hotel as I want to stay more than 1 day and I have accommodation in Kyoto).

However I would like the convenience of the JR pass, the peace of mind it offers, but it is so annoying I have to order it and wait for it to be delivered.
I would have like to pay for it, get a code or whatever and then in Japan get the pass.

There will not be time to have it delivered to my place; going to Tokyo next week and as usual planning in the last moments.

Nozomi is not a non-stop service but a fewer-stop service of Tokaido & San'yo Shinkansen.

Narita Express 3,500 (one trip)
Narita Express 5,500 (return ticket)

Actually it's 1500 yen for a one-way trip and 3500 yen for a round trip.
The price of a Suica & N'EX package includes 2000 yen for a Suica Card (= 1500 yen as e-money + 500 yen as deposit).

When is your plane scheduled to arrive at NRT?
N'EX trains will be not available between 11:20 and 14:10 at the airport stations during the rest of this May.
(Due to the power shortage caused by the March earthquake, railroad operators have been saving electric power in and around Tokyo Metropolis by reducing trains, suspending escalators / elevators, turning off lights / air conditioners or so.)

I'm not sure what you mention by "cheaper tickets" / "advance ticket" but....
In your case, the JR cost for the major route is less than 30000 yen with regular tickets for Tokyo - Kyoto and a N'EX ticket in a N'EX & Suica package. (See A. below.)
With 680 yen more, you can travel further to Nara (transferring at Kyoto) or Shin-Osaka, all with regular tickets. (See B. below.)

: All N'EX seats require reservation.
: You can have a Nozomi ride if you pay 300 yen more.
: If you don't need seat reservation, a Shinkansen charge is 4730 yen, the same regredless of Nozomi, Hikari or Kodama. After getting the ticket you can switch to a ride on a reserved seat, but only once.
: Note that after you get a reserved-seat ticket you can not switch to a non-reservation ride without cancelation.
: (Only as to B.) The distance between NRT and Nara / Shin-Osaka is long enough to get discount on a round -trip fare.
: (Only as to B.) If you miss the designated N'EX train, you can take a later N'EX train on the same day without using a seat.

A.
NRT - Tokyo - Kyoto, round trip
# 29940 yen in total (not including 2000 yen for Suica Card)
# 15960 yen for fare for Tokyo - Kyoto round trip
# The round-trip fare tickets are valid for 8 calendar days.
(You can use them from Day 2 through Day 9.)
# 2 x 5240 yen for Shinkansen Hikari / Kodama charges
# 3500 yen for ticket in round-trip Suica & N'EX

B.
NRT - Tokyo - Nara / Shin-Osaka, round trip
# 30620 yen in total
# 16820 yen for fare after round-trip discount
# The round-trip fare tickets are valid for 10 calendar days.
# 2 x 5240 yen for Shinkansen Hikari / Kodama charges
# 2 x 1660 yen for N'EX charges

If you want the JR Rail Pass and can get to downtown Vancouver you can get them while you wait:

http://www.ntacanada.com/index_en.php

(Bottom left of page for details).

--- I'm not sure what you mention by ''cheaper tickets'' / ''advance ticket'' but....---

I meant this
''With the ''Hikari Hayatoku Kippu'', you can travel between Tokyo and Kyoto by reserved seat on a Hikari train for only 11,500 yen, but the ticket has to purchased at least one week in advance.'' from http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2363.html

I will arrive in Tokyo after 3 pm.

so omotenashi shall i understand you advise against the jr pass based on your calculations ?

Your E Voucher option does not take into consideration your transportation within Tokyo. Depending on your hotel's location, you could run up 600-700 Yen per day using JR trains. Over five days that is going to add up to maybe 3,000 Yen. Maybe you decide to do a day trip to Yokohama, that's going bring the E Voucher option to about the same price as getting the JR Pass and N'EX + Suica deal and you'll also have 1,500 Yen on the Suica Card for subway rides. Seriously, go downtown and get the JR Rail Passes from the place I gave the link to earlier, I really feel this is what you want.

I meant this
''With the ''Hikari Hayatoku Kippu''

I see.
Then let me point out that you can try Hikari Hayatoku for the way back from Kyoto on Day 8 (= Saturday, 28 May), the day before your returning flight.
Seats may be still left to be reserved on Day 1, on a Nozomi to Kyoto and on a Hikari with Hayatoku from Kyoto.

Why I mention Nozomi are:
# Presumably the figure "13,520" in your first post includes a charge for Nozomi.
# Personally I think models of N700 series on Tokaido & San'yo Shinkansen may well be recommended to tourists hoping to experience a super express.
(I took N700 trains between Tokyo and Kyoto a few times and felt them well-designed and comfortable.)
# Now on Tokaido Shinkansen, N700 trains are mostly used for Nozomi service.
# The gap between the costs is small, whether you are with or without a JRP.

Shall i understand you advise against the jr pass

Well, if you get a Japan Rail Pass, you can make a good use of it by visiting
spots easily get closed to (e.g. Akihabara Electric Town) by JR during its duration
and spots for which a non-JR line is better (e.g. Sensoji Temple in Asakusa, Tokyo Tower) before activating it or after it expires.

A-2.
NRT - Tokyo - Kyoto, Nozomi + Hikari, round trip
# 28520 yen in total (not including yen for Suica Card)
# (7980 + 5540) yen, Tokyo to Kyoto, Nozomi researved seat
# 11500 yen, Kyoto - Tokyo, Hikari Hayatoku researved seat
# 3500 yen for ticket in round-trip Suica & N'EX

RobBeer,

I am not from Vancouver so it would be inconvenient for me to get there to get the pass. As a matter of fact I was in London so I could have bought it from there but I decided against it, sure I'll regret this decision :)

When does the validity of the one week rail pass start?Onthe day of converting the voucher into rail pass or the first day of use of the pass? Thanks in advance.

When does the validity of the one week rail pass start?Onthe day of converting the voucher into rail pass or the first day of use of the pass?

On the day that you specify when exchanging your voucher for the rail pass.

@zen2005: I can only advise on the information you give, either direct or indirect and your profile states that you are residing in Vancouver. Had you given your actual location last week, when I originally made the suggestion, then you whould have probably had your passes by now.

I just came back from Japan. I originally bought a 7 day green card pass. One of the convenient things about the pass is if you miss your ride, you can immediately get seats for the next train. That's what happened to me in Hakata when my watch was off by a couple of minutes. It's definitely great security, convenience, and value to purchase a JR pass in my opinion.

From the series ebetter late than never e, not to mention that Japan beat Germany in Womanfs Soccer World Cup so I felt compelled somehow to conclude the post with my own findings.

It turned out to be more cost effective just with the train voucher to Kyoto instead of buying a 7 day JR Pass. Also, I could take Nozomi, that it would not have been covered by JR Pass and they are (much) more frequent that Hikari. I did not even bother getting to the train station for a specific time after I saw in the schedule that there were like 5 or 6 between 18:00 and 19:00.
Also, we did not have any problems finding a seat.

Except for Kyoto we did not go out of Tokyo (we neither had the time nor the inclination). We moved around in Tokyo using the subway (did not stay close to a train station either).

The Suica is good but I did not know you had to top it up with minimum 1,000 yen so towards the end we were buying individual tickets. This way we could get the deposit back without any charge fee as we had only 500 yen left on the cards. I think I read somewhere this tip (i.e. to fully use up your card).

Also, everywhere they say that the combo NEX+SUICA is best. However, I have my doubts as I read about a rapid express train from teh airport to Tokyo that is more cost effective albeit slower by 30 minutes (in this case one has to buy a subway card separately). However, perhaps it is not so frequent.

Thank you to all the people who took the time to answer and hope this thread will be useful for others!

Some photos here: www.thecynicalcustomer.com/2011/07/japan-trip.html